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Post by Justin(o) on Feb 18, 2011 10:07:50 GMT -8
Josh, I dont understand why dont you just buy one? You could always resell it. Or loan to others.  . . .Dale's right. Deleting stuff makes posts difficult, if not terrible. . . |
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Post by Gangplank on Feb 18, 2011 10:28:24 GMT -8
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Post by zipbyu on Feb 18, 2011 17:05:06 GMT -8
You are spot on, why delete anything?
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Post by Justin(o) on Feb 18, 2011 20:27:12 GMT -8
Agreed
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Post by Oneup on Feb 19, 2011 15:59:00 GMT -8
Josh, I wasn't trying to piss you off. I was just stating my opinion on the subject. There was no need to delete your posts. They were informative and well put. I learned something about a system that I actually have installed on my bike. Because of your research I went and looked up their videos on their website and will hopefully be able to do the webinar on Thursday (last week was a disaster for me).
After doing some research and taking into what Aaron said I still believe the same thing. Getting your bike professionally tuned is the best idea. The self mapper seems to be a great thing and from what I can tell will actually be better after the bike has been tuned by a pro. Here is why:
If I get the Z-AFM, do I still need to put my bike on a dyno?
The dyno is still the best way to establish which air-fuel ratio(s) will deliver the greatest HP and most linear power curve, simply due to the fact that the tuner has the ability to view the change in performance. However, a dyno cannot account for variables that are constantly changing in real world riding conditions such as humidity, elevation, ram-air, temperature, etc. This is where the Z-AFM excels: once the optimal combination of AFRs has been established for your bike, the Z-AFM will allow you to maintain this desired state of tune and achieve maximum performance at all times.
What is the best air-fuel ratio (AFR) for my bike?
There is no magic number. The value for your application may vary depending on the intended use, type of fuel being used, or other performance modifications. To determine the best ratio or combination of ratios, we recommend consulting an experienced tuner or utilizing a dyno operated by a skilled professional.
That came directly from the Bazzaz website. You need someone that knows what they are doing and is using a dyno to figure out what the best target fuel ratios for your bike are. It seems after that is established you can use the self mapper to build a map for the day you are on track based on those initial settings. I also firmly believe that people who have been doing this kind of thing for years are going to be able to do a better job than someone who buys a "do it yourself kit". It is the same with just about everything profession in life.
I also sent an email to the guy that will be tuning my bike to see what his opinion on the system is. He is extremely familiar with Bazzaz products and their effective application. He should be able to give some insight as to what the best method is. I'll post up when he replies to me.
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Post by zipbyu on Feb 19, 2011 16:29:53 GMT -8
That sounds like the biggest POS in the world. Auto tune to me sounds like a auto tune. Auto tune means you dont have to tune it, it is done automatic. The thing why I neverd care for a dyno is the lack of 100+ air speed forced in the the bike(ram air). I know ram air is only 2-3 HP, but if you are anal about perfection with tuning than a auto tune sounds like the thing will help more that anything. I dont think thay shoud call it a auto tune if it doesent do just that.
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Post by Oneup on Feb 19, 2011 16:36:15 GMT -8
It's called a self mapper. Dynojet calls theirs an auto tune. Most dynos have fans that will force in enough air to give an accurate representation of being on track. I don't think it is 100+ mile an hour air, but it is supposed to be enough to build a proper map.
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Post by zipbyu on Feb 19, 2011 16:46:29 GMT -8
It's called a self mapper. Dynojet calls theirs an auto tune. Most dynos have fans that will force in enough air to give an accurate representation of being on track. I don't think it is 100+ mile an hour air, but it is supposed to be enough to build a proper map. Sorry greg, I call bullshit on that one. The air is for cooling purposes. |
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Post by Oneup on Feb 19, 2011 16:57:41 GMT -8
Fair enough. You'd have to ask a pro what the difference ram air actually makes on a bike on track.
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Post by zipbyu on Feb 19, 2011 17:41:42 GMT -8
I think a better question is how much more can you get out of a "self tuner" alone, OR with both a person dyno tuning it with a "not so self tuner". I would be curious what they bring to the table.
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Post by Justin(o) on Feb 19, 2011 17:52:46 GMT -8
I bought an auto tuner today. I'm going to see if I can load a picture here, later.  |
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Post by Oneup on Feb 19, 2011 17:58:27 GMT -8
From what I can see after going through their website once you figure out what the ideal a/f ratio is for every cell on the matrix (need a dyno to do that) you can then put those into the self mapper and run a few sessions on the bike. After that you update the map with the self mappers recommendations and the bike should run the same as it did when it came off the dyno.
You can do the whole thing yourself but you need to know what the right a/f ratio is for every rpm and throttle position. The question is how do you do that without a dyno?
As far as how effective it is in the real world. I'll let you know when I get a response.
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Post by Gangplank on Feb 20, 2011 10:44:30 GMT -8
Ok. Well no worries. I was just hoping to learn how to use the equipment that came on my bike. Choices are an expensive dyno tune or get my mits on a Z-AFM and learn a bit about it. Learning is good. A few people requested I put the notes on how to use the Z-AFM and self mapping back up so here goes. This assumes you have the Bazzaz Z-FI installed (w/ or w/out quick shifter and traction control options) and the Z-AFM installed and software downloaded. 1. Turn key to power on bike. 2. hook up usb cord 3. open ZFI-Mapper software 4. click on the "self mapping" tab 5. IMPORTANT: press CLEAR to clear any prior data if any from a previous logging sessions. 6. Enter the Target AFR. (see note below on target AFR) 7. Hit START to begin the data logging 8. EXIT the software and disconnect the cable. NOTE: the key can be turned off and the Z-AFM will come on and log data next time bike is started. 9. Go ride. 10. After riding hook up the usb cord and power on the bike 11. open ZFI-Mapper software. 12. click the self mapping tab. 13. click STOP to stop the data logging. 14. click RETRIEVE to download the logged data into the software. 15. Review the data. 16. If all the changes suggested for the entire map look good click APPLY to "apply all" OR select a block of cells and apply only those to adjust just sections of the map. 16. IMPORTANT: click CLEAR to clear the data. Otherwise the next data logging session will add on to the previous session and average the changes (which can really screw with the map). 17. Hit START if you want to repeat the process. A few notes: In the webinar it was recommended to repeat the process 2 to 3 times "but don't go overboard. If it gets to where the changes are 2-3% that is good." Some recommnd removing the Z-AFM or at least the AFR sensor after logging and mapping. Either or both can be damaged in a crash. They make a sensor bung plug to put in when the sensor is out. Re: target AFR the interweb is a good resource - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-fuel_ratio "In naturally aspirated engines powered by octane, maximum power is frequently reached at AFRs ranging from 12.5 - 13.3:1. This is where the pro tuner comes in. Having a dyno allows a pro to tune for the best AFR for a particular bike engine to get the best HP. In racing applications trying to get every bit of HP and a smooth torque curve. For street or trackday hobbyist mid targets of 12.8-13.0 are often discussed for motor longevity. |
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Post by Oneup on Feb 20, 2011 11:19:48 GMT -8
Choices are an expensive dyno tune or get my mits on a Z-AFM and learn a bit about it. Learning is good. This is the only part of your posts I have been having a problem with and why I keep saying to start with a dyno. Dyno tunes are not that expensive. They generally cost the same as the auto tune and they get your bike to the best place possible. Tuning it yourself is a neat thing but it isn't as good as a pro. If you are going to pay the same price why not get it done right. It's also interesting seeing them say to remove it. Taking mine off would be a pain in the ass as I would have to remove the tank and tank bracket to get to the wiring for it. I routed my cables as cleanly as possible which makes it difficult to get at them. |
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Post by Gangplank on Feb 20, 2011 12:40:21 GMT -8
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