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Post by Oneup on Oct 5, 2010 9:37:27 GMT -8
No idea. I only know about r6s because half of the top guys in the afm are looking for new motors half way through the season. When you see that you start asking questions.
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Post by jlavallee on Oct 5, 2010 11:00:31 GMT -8
If oil change intervals and level are making a difference then that is a good indication that something inside has a requirement at the extreme of the capability of that oil. If we had some sampling it would be pretty east to determine what was going on.
I've seen many times where we've had to change lubricants to get around a design problem.
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Post by Oneup on Oct 5, 2010 11:07:51 GMT -8
It's possible. I have been told it's an oiling issue. I guess the pumps and motor design do not do a sufficient job of oiling the crank bearings. I've been told the pros put an 08 oil pump in the 06/07s and inthe newer bike they put in a custom built go capacity pump. After they do that they then bump idle to 3000 rpms. Keep in mind everything I post on this thread is heresay and personal experience. When it comes to this subject I have no scientific knowledge.
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Post by Gangplank on Oct 5, 2010 11:41:34 GMT -8
Been reading a bit more on the Shell Rotella T6. This is interesting info for any who want a long read. www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Oils1.htmlEspecially the section about diesel oils (CI-4 specification) and JASO certifications, and the conclusions: "Three synthetics stand out from the rest: Mobil Delvac 1, Mobil-1 SUV and Shell Rotella T Synthetic. These are C certified industrial oils meant to be purchased in 55 gallon drums and used by companies which run a lot of diesel engines. The Commercial oils, as discussed above, have more expensive additive packages which are meant to prolong engine life and oil life, as opposed to being cheap to buy at Pep Boys and helping the car companies meet their CAFE requirements. These oils meet all the automobile requirements through SJ, and also have extra additives to help pick up gunk in the engine, to keep the oil from becoming acidic, and to maintain the oil's viscosity over a long time. In fact, the manufacturers talk about their oil's viscosity resistance to shear forces - exactly what a motorcycle needs. Shell Rotella-T Synthetic is available at Wal-Mart for $13 / gallon, so I consider this the motor oil of choice. Delvac-1 is very hard to get in the west - there are only two places in all of California where you can buy it. Mobil-1 SUV is readily available everywhere for about $4.50 / quart. When used with the correct filters, these oils are certified for 50,000 mile oil change intervals, and are frequently used for 100,000 to 150,000 miles in diesel long-haul trucks. Now, before you get all excited about the possibilities, you must also keep in mind that the diesel engines don't run their oil through their transmission, and the large diesels all have two oil filters, one a normal paper filter, and the other a 1 or 2 micron filter that catches pretty much everything. We don't have these secondary ultra-fine oil filters on our bikes. Also, the large diesel engines hold eleven gallons of oil - a oil and filter change costs these guys $350 if they use synthetics, $150 if they don't.
The synthetic diesel oils are 5w-40 oils. Some people have expressed concern to me that this doesn't match the 10w-40 specification for their engine. The 5w rating only applies when the oil is cold, below about 80° f. Once your oil and engine are up to operating temperature, these are 40 weight oils, just like all the others. In cold conditions, under 40° f, the 5w oils are much better for your engine than a 10w oil." If I read that right the CI-4 is as good or better than Mobile-1 or any JSAO or motorcycle specific oil. I'll probably try the Shell Rotella T6 and change it more often. I may have it tested at some point next season. I see no reason to spend double to get Mobile 1 or Castrol Activo blend if something else is just as good. Often you get what you pay for but paying more does not get you more. |
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Post by jlavallee on Oct 5, 2010 12:11:18 GMT -8
I agree with most of the statements made after a brief skim of the above article. That being said, you're not going to know all you need to after reading a brief presentation. I know enough to know that I know so little, I trust the engineers at the big companies to blend it for me.
Your comment that "Often you get what you pay for but paying more does not get you more" is true. I am not saying that you are actually getting a different product because its label says motorcycle. What I am suggesting is that a lot of knowledge has gone into development and the best mix for a motorcycle. Maybe you're just a good using the cheaper stuff or something designed for a diesel application. Logically, if it was so good they would put that in the MC bottle though right?
Do what you like, I am just giving you the logic on why I make the choice that I do.
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Post by Justin(o) on Oct 5, 2010 12:15:58 GMT -8
Do what you like, I am just giving you the logic on why I make the choice that I do. And my logic is to copy the guy that admits he knows so little, but who's understanding of the subject is astounding. After the 4th initial, I pass out. That's why I don't drive the WRX S. . .ZZZzzzzzz |
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Post by Gangplank on Oct 5, 2010 12:22:36 GMT -8
I often think that some of the companies take the stuff that is in one bottle, put it in a MC labled bottle and charge more. That was my point...
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Post by jlavallee on Oct 5, 2010 12:25:17 GMT -8
It's possible. I have been told it's an oiling issue. I guess the pumps and motor design do not do a sufficient job of oiling the crank bearings. I've been told the pros put an 08 oil pump in the 06/07s and inthe newer bike they put in a custom built go capacity pump. After they do that they then bump idle to 3000 rpms. Keep in mind everything I post on this thread is heresay and personal experience. When it comes to this subject I have no scientific knowledge. If it is an oiling issue in terms of pump output or pressure then changing the oil won't help beyond keeping the viscosity near max levels. Bumping idle would keep oil pressure higher or maybe they need the extra revs to overcome the drag of the new pump. If I knew the root cause of failure it would be easier to suggest what could be done to help minimize any issues. On a race bike I would be trending toward the higher viscosity range oils in the manufacturers chart. |
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Post by Oneup on Oct 5, 2010 12:26:00 GMT -8
It's settled then. I'm switching to vegetable oil.
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Post by jlavallee on Oct 5, 2010 12:32:08 GMT -8
I often think that some of the companies take the stuff that is in one bottle, put it in a MC labled bottle and charge more. That was my point... I am confident that happens a lot with oils brought by a re-seller. I've met a lot of industry guys and they admit that there is often just usually the lack of some friction modifiers (to help the clutch) and addition of antiwear additives to deal with tranny issues. A major company won't do that because an analysis will prove them as frauds. Anybody can send a sample out. |
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rgmrts
Committee Member 
dan
Posts: 827
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Post by rgmrts on Oct 5, 2010 12:33:34 GMT -8
greg save that for when the turbo diesel bikes come out!!!!!!
then you can use the rotella for sure
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Post by jlavallee on Oct 5, 2010 12:33:40 GMT -8
It's settled then. I'm switching to vegetable oil. Corn or another veg? ;D |
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Post by Oneup on Oct 5, 2010 12:44:39 GMT -8
What do you recommend?
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Post by jlavallee on Oct 5, 2010 12:54:16 GMT -8
Always go with the manufacturer spec. I hear Mazola is the new Honda spec but I always use peanut oil since the exhaust fumes smell better.  |
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Post by Admin on Oct 5, 2010 12:56:49 GMT -8
i run that stuff I buy at McDonald's. It's got that special additive that makes you crave their fries...and will add 2 hp to your bike too.
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